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Author Topic: Inlet valve oil line  (Read 1847 times)

nick949

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Inlet valve oil line
« on: November 18, 2014, 11:00:08 pm »
Hi Folks,
   Shortly after getting my NF I bought and installed a Teo Lamers oil line to help with the inlet valve oiling issue.  After its recent top end rebuild my bike is all back together, but I have a nagging doubt about whether I installed the oil line the right way around.

Can anyone remember whether the metering valve (looks like a main jet to me) goes at the oil supply side (ie. right side of the engine), or at the junction directly above the inlet valve?  Duh....

Nick

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banquo

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2014, 09:10:32 am »
There's a photo on here Nick? You have to click on it to select the right one - it's not the one that shows on the page.
http://www.tlm.nl/webshop/en/oil-pipe-modified-falcone-nf-101536010010-moto-guzzi

And one of Paul Friday's pix from the archive site: extra plumbing for an oil filter (?) but does that help at all?
« Last Edit: November 19, 2014, 11:59:44 am by banquo »

nick949

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2014, 12:25:23 pm »
Thanks Jake.  The routing isn't the problem, it's which end of the extra pipe gets the nozzle.  Fortunately, my son used logic to figure it out, so now I'm happy.  Now all I need is a day with ice free roads to properly test it out.  Perhaps by April............... ::(

Nick

Jacks the lad

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2014, 03:19:38 pm »
I made my own, if anyone is interested I will post how I did it.

nick949

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2014, 03:31:54 pm »
jack - the one I got from Teo Lamers had some kind of metering valve (actually it looks like a carb main jet) in the line. I assume it's there so that only a limited amount of oil is allowed to go to the inlet valve.  I suppose the thinking is that if it's an open pipe, it may redirect too much of the oil supply and diminish the supply to the exhaust valve and rockers.

Yours looks like a great job - just as slick as the Teo Lamers one.

Nick

Jacks the lad

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2014, 03:45:13 pm »
Yes Nick you are right, it's a Dell'Orto carburettor number 60 jet. and you are also right in thinking that it's there to prevent too much oil going to the top of the engine. photo shows it in the top banjo bolt.

nick949

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2014, 04:00:50 pm »
So it's in the top banjo joint above the inlet valve?  Darn, now I have to take mine off to check I got it the right way around as I mixed up the ends while my top-end was in for repairs.  Oh well, I have to do the valve lash again anyway after re-torquing the head. 

Jacks the lad

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2014, 04:27:22 pm »
You have got me wondering now, but I'm fairly suer that's the right place ( if someone knows better I will stand corrected, but it seems the right place to me ). By the way my banjos are 12mm at one end and 8mm at the other so I at least can't mix them up.

banquo

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2014, 04:51:02 pm »
Maybe I'm being dumb here (and thanks for the photos JtL and yes, please let us know how you made it) but if the restrictor is anywhere in the pipe, it will restrict the flow by same amount, so it shouldn't matter if it's at the end or the start of the pipe? The pressure drop, and hence the flow across the restrictor, will be the same whether it's at the start the middle or at the end, ignoring pressure drop in the large pipe, which we can afford to do, as it's so much larger than the jet...
If I've picked this up wrong, feel free to slap me about the face with a wet fish... ;D

Jacks the lad

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2014, 07:09:28 pm »
Having asked about an extra  oil feed for the valve gear, and then seeing that a ready made-up version was going to cost 101 Euro. I decided to make my own. Here’s how I did it, and the mistakes I made (so that you won't make them as well).

First I acquired a 8mm and a12mm single ended banjo union and matching bolt. These I took to my local hydraulic pipe service to have about 250mm
wire braided oil line crimped on. Next remove the 16mm blanking plug from the rocker box, drill and tap this to suit the 8mm banjo bolt. Note: the normal 8mm bolt has a pitch of 1.25mm, whereas the banjo was 1mm, so the 8mm tap that you  might buy at your local hardware shop is probably not going to do. Luckily I had a 8 x 1 to hand. However to prevent too much  oil being delivered to the top of the engine some form of restriction needs to be fitted to the system. In the professional made version this is achieved by  fitting a number 60  Dell'Orto  jet. These have a 6mm x 1 thread and happily this is a standard size, so the 8mm banjo bolt was tapped this size and the jet screwed into it's end. The OD of the jet was somewhat larger than 8mm so once fitted in the bolt it was skimmed down to size.
On the right hand side of the engine there is a “U” shaped pipe held on with 2 “Acorn” 12mm nuts. Remove the top one of these and replace with a short adaptor made from 19mm hexagon, about 30mm long, drilled and tapped to suit. Now this is where I went wrong, so pay attention. The banjo bolt as supplied was 12 x 1.5 (standard bolts are 1.75 pitch) As I had a 1.5 tap I thought all would be well, it wasn't. The engine turned out to be 12 x 1.25. So I had to make a new adaptor and banjo bolt. To do this I purchased a tap and die set off E-bay at a cost a less than £7.00, possibly not the best quality, but for what was probably going to be a single use I didn't think it mattered much. With the new adaptor in place the pipe was fitted, not forgetting new sealing washers and the job was done. The photos my previous posts  show the completed set up. 


banquo

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2014, 09:54:04 am »
Thanks for the description; really useful.

cloggy

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 11:13:49 pm »
I've just put on the extra feed. Before I fitted it I kicked over the engine 6  times or so and watched it spatter oil all over the cobbles. Even with the restrictor the supply appeared excessive.  Now the valve gear is a touch quieter and it smokes slightly at idle, but not when the revs rise....   The kit was easy to put on excepting one of the bolts needing shortening as it bottomed out 3mm before the union was tight. Is 60 the smallest jet you can get? I'm going to have to take it off to check.

banquo

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2017, 09:49:35 am »
Interesting result Cloggy; One thing that surprises me about the kit, is why they don't have a union that accepts a much smaller feed pipe. The hose seems to be the same sizes as the primary oil feed to the head, and as it's only expected to deliver a dribble of oil, I would have thought a much smaller piep (more like brake pipe size) would have been acceptable. With the right size of pipe, maybe a restrictor wouldn't be required?

cloggy

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2017, 11:39:22 am »
Well whatever jet they put in [I looked and there was no number and it wasn't a main jet] it was tiny, narrower than a drawing pin so restricting the pipe wouldn't do anything as one couldn't buy a pipe that restrictive. As I've mentioned before my engine seems to have a rudely healthy oil pump, light goes out with a kick or two and when kicking over with the rockerbox cover off great gouts of oil are pumped through just by pushing the kicker. Nevertheless the inlet area seemed fairly dry. It may be that I have a non standard pump in the engine  but whatever it's pumping at a fairly high pressure and volume straight from idle.  I can't really tell how much quieter it is once warmed up as I've been wearing my Davida helmet..  Can't spend too much time on it as swallows have invaded my shed. ::)
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banquo

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Re: Inlet valve oil line
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2017, 11:57:47 am »
See your point about the restrictor size, but still don't see why they design with such a monstrous pipe...
One swallow doesn't make a summer, as we discovered with yesterday's storm... :o