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Author Topic: Running without a battery?  (Read 663 times)

patentgeek

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Running without a battery?
« on: October 23, 2017, 05:25:54 am »
Has anyone tried running their NF without a battery, maybe placing a large capacitor in place of the battery?  I've done this on other bikes with (permanent magnet) generator type systems, but I'm not sure if the NF generator produces enough juice at kick-start revolutions to start the bike.

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banquo

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2017, 12:29:45 pm »
I've started mine with a completely flat battery, so that's encouraging. On a parallel course, Tonya removed his dynamo and battery, and ran a total loss system from a small Li-ion battery, with rarely used LEDs and a reprofiled points cam to reduce dwell. Worked OK, although he's now looking at fitting a mini-dynamo to restore some charge. The stock dynamo and battery are way oversized for civilian use.

patentgeek

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2017, 11:25:51 pm »
Quote
I've started mine with a completely flat battery, so that's encouraging.

That's a pretty good indication that a capacitor can be substituted for the battery.

The battery space on the NF is so huge, I'd like to re-purpose it for storage.

banquo

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2017, 09:15:43 am »
I'd 'planned' something similar (I do a lot of ideas and none ever comes to fruition) but was disheartened by the space occupied by the rear mudguard. I'd visualised a box fitting right through from side to side, but the mudguard took up most of the space. I did consider replacing the battery with a small AGM type, that could be stuck pretty much anywhere. That might be more convenient than dispensing with it altogether.

patentgeek

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2019, 05:39:47 pm »
Update.  I tried substituting a large capacitor for my battery and couldn't get my bike to start (running conventional points).  Your results might vary.

banquo

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2019, 08:33:09 pm »
I'm no good with electronics, but if you kck the bike over with a capacitive load connected to the dynamo output, won't all the energy go to the capacitor until it's fully charged, so there's nothing to generate a spark?

johnedwards

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #6 on: June 23, 2019, 05:23:55 pm »
with a dynamo you wont get any power to feed the capacitor until you spin the dynamo fast enough for the voltage reg to pull in . this wont happen at kickstart revs . capacitors only work on permanent magnet alternaters that generate from zero revs. you need a small battery to activate system
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banquo

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2019, 08:26:40 pm »
I'm going to have to revise my comments above after the Mighty Falcone packed in in Italy, and the battery was the culprit. Ridiculous; it was only 16 years old, and stuck in there 8 years ago, when it stopped churning my Harley over. I knew something was wrong when it didn't start first kick, and all the symptoms were the same as when the coil failed last year, but I couldn't believe the replacement had gone the same way so quickly. The bike would start evengually, but was misfiring and backfiring, and would die at low rpm (as it did as we drew in for the ferry to Bellagio). An hour or so of messing around, changing the HT lead for a copper one got it running again, but something clearly wasn't right. The lights were very dim off the battery, but bright when the engine was running, so it all pointed to the battery. I noticed that the idiot lights were quite dim, but as I turned the engine over, and the points closed, they virtually went out, so the voltage was collapsing even under moderate load. Looks like rattling out there in the back of the van has shaken what was left of the battery to ;pieces, and I suspect an internal fracture, as it was fine before we left. Mandello is not the place to need a new battery in a hurry. All anyone wanted to sell me was a huge wet battery, the OEM spec for the bike. Nobody had any AGM batteries, which are all that I use these days, and there wasn't time to order one in. I ended up buying a tiny sealed lead-acid battery for (gulp) 70 Euros, but that was better than the 120 Euros for a wet battery that I don't want.

philb

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2019, 03:26:26 pm »
Hi, just catching up, and by coincidence, my battery is on its way out.  So it's interesting to read this article.
I've just replaced my Triumph Trident battery with an AGM battery, what a difference, just look at the button and it starts.
So.......what's recommended by the people who have tried them,  is there a Motobatt suitable?
My N/F  has the dynastart facility......but it's not interested with my old and tired lead acid type.
Thanks for any info.   Phil.

banquo

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2019, 10:44:33 pm »
Hi, just catching up, and by coincidence, my battery is on its way out.  So it's interesting to read this article.
I've just replaced my Triumph Trident battery with an AGM battery, what a difference, just look at the button and it starts.
So.......what's recommended by the people who have tried them,  is there a Motobatt suitable?
My N/F  has the dynastart facility......but it's not interested with my old and tired lead acid type.
Thanks for any info.   Phil.
Motobatt seem to elicit differing views, but I’ve had no issues. Mine has been running from a Harley Softail battery from 2003, after it stopped churning over that from about 2011. It’s physically much smaller than the stock battery and the Motobatt equivalent cost about £80. If it turns over a Harley the Dynastart should be a breeze

philb

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2019, 11:10:15 am »
Thanks for that.
I suspect that I will go for a Motobatt, after the success with the Trident.
Does anyone have a manufacturer's part number, and better, a source in UK who is willing to post
(and best value!).
Thanks, Phil

banquo

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Re: Running without a battery?
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2019, 09:13:51 pm »
Thanks for that.
I suspect that I will go for a Motobatt, after the success with the Trident.
Does anyone have a manufacturer's part number, and better, a source in UK who is willing to post
(and best value!).
Thanks, Phil

The one I used was a Harley size and physically smaller so needed packed out. I used the equivalent of MBTX20U, and bought off eNay, checking prices to get the best deal . Last time it was mad4bikes; previously Busters. That battery is cheaper  than the full size one but turns over a 1450cc Harley, so should have no issue with a Dynastart